Click on the post for the Janesville Gazette article covering the resolution to be placed on the upcoming Evansville election in April.
The issue should provoke discussion over the coming months. Stay tuned.
Saturday, January 14, 2006
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It would have been nice if our alderperson's could havehad a more intelligent answer/comment. OVER half of the city of Evansville voted Democrat, as did the state of Wisconsin. I saw a bumper sticker today that said I don't have to like Bush, to LOVE my country. Some want to say ' oh they don't support president Bush, they don't support the troops.' VERY UNTRUE. They are over there doing a job, doing what they are told. HOWEVER they were sent over there based on LIES.
ReplyDeleteThey did and do deserve better than that. They need to be brought home, and given all the help they need to rebuild THEIR lives after helping the people of Iraq rebuild theirs.
Thank god I am not the only one who feels this way. I was starting to lose hope from our council and I now understand what the council is against (Statues Fred I know). CUUE will give a public hearing to educate people on both sides of the issue. From the postings I have read there is only one side to CUUE and that is Fred's. Instead of a "educational" meeting hold a rally. What a freakin joke this guy is becoming.
ReplyDeleteI would not be so quick to change your mind about the council. The majority of them need to go. They have sat way to long and most of them really don't act like they care what they are voting on. FRED is new, he is very vocal, these are his opinions. He can back up what he has to say , CAN YOU? I have not seen you do it yet. By the way their have been rally's and vigils where have you been?
ReplyDeletehey robin read what i say before you write i said instead of the "educational" meeting hold a rally.
ReplyDeleteI did read what you said. I am saying is their have been rally's and vigils. The way you state it in your post you talk as though it's never been done.
ReplyDeleteI think this group wants to educate people about their position. But some people are afraid of maybe learning something new.?
I think if you really want to have a rally, you organize it, you get it going. Don't blame Fred or anyone else for something you are not willing to do yourself. I welcome everyone expressing their views and opinions in a non-violent way.
ReplyDeleteI strongly disagree with Mr. Wessells arguments in the article for several reasons.
ReplyDelete1. The Bush Administration withheld a lot of information until well after the election (NSA spying, delaying the Plamegate investigation by lies, this is why Scooter Libby was indicted, and will likely be Karl Roves downfall).
2. We now know the war was not based on facts. The intelligence was "cherry picked." The Bush administration was aware that "curveball" and Chalabi were not very good sources of information, but they presented the information they received from them anyway.
3. I am not convinced that Bush won the electoral or popular vote. As far as electoral votes there were major problems in Ohio (see Congressman Conyers website if you haven't already).
The people that own the machines that count the votes are Republicans. Ask yourself why they are so against a paper trail? If the machines are legitimate, why do they oppose this?
Blackboxvoting.org is another good site to look at.
I think the 2 major issues facing this country are:
1. Verifiable electronic voting (i.e. paper trails).
2. Public financing of elections. Whatever your political views/affiliations are, you are not being represented by the politicians that are supposed to represent you. It is time to change the way we finance elections and take corporations/lobbyist out of the equation. The Democrats should capitalize on this Abramof scandal and take advantage of it, if they truly want to reform the system we now have. I am not saying they are innocent of corporate funding (although they aren't tied to Jack Abramof).
If we can change the way elections are financed we will be better represented.
Why would I hold a rally for the war?? Robin,I don't know if you are missing my point or not I will explain. CUUE will not show both sides of the issue this will be a one sided event not a "educational" expierence. The way Mark explained his arguments is great, I do not agree with him but he did it in a orderly fashion, he is entitled to his opinion. What Fred did in the article was sugar coat a piece of crap and tell me it way candy
ReplyDeleteYou were the one that suggested their be a rally??? Why should Cuue have a rally when they can accomplish what they want with their public hearing? Yes I would agree President Bush did try to sugar coat his reasons for going to war, some people call it lying.
ReplyDeletedeception. Slammer I have a question do you happen to live in the same ' ward' as Fred, and by chance or you campaigning for maybe his opponent? I am not paying alot of attention to that alderperson race because he is not in my 'ward/district' . But one has to wonder.
WOW alright in simple terms Fred said to the Gazette we are having a public hearing to talk about both sides of the issue. What Fred shoud have said is "CUUE is having a rally to bash Bush and this War." After laughting I would have said great have a rally what this is really turning into.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you just not say from the start you felt this was nothing more than a bush bashing? Thats your opinion, yours to have. I think bush deserves to take alot of heat for the lies he told and the things he's done. I am not one who go to this cuue meeting. I have my own opinions they are not going to change. Their is a reason why Bush's 'rating' is so low.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question Robin, I do not live in Fred's district. I am just concerned how are tax dollars are being spent
ReplyDeleteI am going to have to go in and attach a.k.a. Robin to my 'handle'. Where and why you are getting that who knows. WHAT tax money? You were asked that before and never did answer.
ReplyDeleteRobin, we pay Fred as a council member out of our tax dollars that is where I get that. Again read my postings before you write. As for Robin I get that from the postings whenever someone disagrees with Fred you are the first one to say "fred is great", "Fred cares", "Fred is the best" so you are his sidekick Robin.
ReplyDeleteAlwaysaPackerFan said...
ReplyDeleteO.K. first of all I am since you are new, I will cut you some slack and not write what I am really thinking. YOU MUST BE NEW or you would know that I disagree with Fred on several subjects. I suggest you educate yourself on past posts and you will see Fred and I have had serious issues with his views of how the school is run.
Don't assume you know me. I don't know Fred, I would not know him if I passed him on the street. He is entitled to his opinion, and backs it with facts. Even when he backs it with facts does not mean you have to agree with him. He researches things and does not just start talking. Fred and got the signature's on his own time. No money involved on the city's part. The vote, is any other vote that comes before the city council, from what I have observed over the last 3 years, their discussions don't usually last more than 20 minutes before they vote. Which really is sad considering some of the things they vote on. Some items they do table, and continue at the next meeting. I think we agree that this city council needs to be replaced, every last one of them. I think the fact that there are so many different new people running this year, does send the message that this city wants change. I think from what I read of your posts you are more upset that the city council would even take up this issue, you need to talk with Bill Connors about this. He will love me for this. But as was pointed out to you in a early post, you if you had a issue and went through proper channels could also bring your cause before the city council. This is AMERICA we have these freedoms. YOU said you are not in Fred's district, so if you are not, are you running for city council and if not why not? You seem to have some definite thoughts on change for the city, put those ideas and thoughts to use and participate. Make the changes. I am now done on this issue. I think its clear you threw the ' robin' in there because you don't have a strong arguement and had nothing else to add. I am done discussing this with you.
7:15 AM
What facts do I need to have? My first posting stated that we do not need to use a local ballot and local council members we pay money to. I was then paraded about how I did this on my own time, I had no problem with that, but once it hit the board then I am helping pay for it. After reading the last Gazette article I don't have to big of a problem with most of our council money hasen't really been wasted and my taxes have not gone up too much. What I really would like to know is why did Bush go to war?? I know you think he lied about everything going into it, even though a majority of democrats voted to go. Is he really that bad and just wanted to start war for war's sake do you think it is for oil??? let me know. I do not have time to run for any government right now I have 2 kids under 4 and a business that I travel at least 3 days a week. One more point I will make is this got real big when the presidental election was happening, people like John Kerry suddenly changed their position on the war and tried to feed it to the public. When the libs lost the election for president and the house and senate it turned into impeach bush, now that they will not have that opportunity, they are gearing up for 2008. Like Wessel said "sore losers"
ReplyDeleteI will end my postings by saying this. First of all I won my bet with my liberal friend by saying if you disagree with any liberal view of the war I will get a lot of anti Bush comments, the funny thing is that I never debated the war with any of you (I just added the Kerry and election to get your blood boiling.) Fact is the only point I debated was the way we are spending tax payer dollars. Fact is according to open records law in the City of Evansville Alberpeople are paid $45 dollars for each council meeting they attend. The night that this proposal was introduced (legally)to the council there were 7 council members that listened to this at 45 per person is $315 dollars. My OPINION is that as little as pennys I paid that night it was a waste. I just wrote a check for $4000 a few weeks ago to go to the school (many wasteful dollars in my OPINION). City services, and Technical College (A money pit hole my OPINION until we get representation.)
ReplyDeleteMr Juergens completely won my bet with the comment "think of the tax dollars being spent on this war as opposed to the incremental cost of putting this resolution on the ballot" so as long as I have the same OPINION as Mr Juergens we are not wasting money comparing it to the war. You all can have your beliefs if we are wasting money in Iraq or not all I did the first day was state about tax dollars being used for this resolution. To show I am not a hippocrit last week Suzanne Jeskewitz put a proposal to the wisconsin Legesitative floor proposing a State Tarton (Kilt) what a waste of time and tax payer money for a feel good movement. Yes I did hear this on Charlie Sykes while i was on the road and Ms. Jeskewitz is a Republican. If someone with all the right channels came to the council and they spent time on a resolution to fire Paul Barrows I would find that wasting time and money to (eventhough I agree). Just for future arguments almost all OPINIONS we put on these site are that OPINIONS, I keep hearing LIES LIES LIES facts do not come from Moveon.org, Michael Moore as well as Rush, Sykes, Hannity etc. They may form a OPINION but just that.
I found this you may like to read and I have done this from day one but all you want are facts
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
opinion - a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
this is just a comment to Wayne's comment. It is very true with any situation you are unhappy with you should contact your local reps. Like you said though, they know. Quite a few of them are have or are begining to question how much longer we should be over there. HOWEVER more than one time now when there has been issues locally
ReplyDeleteour Reps, have stepped in to see what they could do on a local level. So issues cross borders, just because its national does not mean it stays that way, or local issues sometimes get help from State Reps.
I also want to add that I disagree with your comment on how long the troops will be over there, I think things are changing as we speak. By Cuue doing what it is, it just adds that much more preasure and sends a clear message. Are we the U.S.A. any safer than before this all started. NO we are not. WE would be a fool to think we are.
ReplyDeleteI just needed to added one more packerfan. FACTS are we have not been attacked since 9/11 I need some credible facts to back up your opinion just don't write things
ReplyDeleteThere are any number of sights you can go to that talks about 9/11 and the attempted attacks and the different people who have been arrested since 9/11. You are the only one on here so far talking with out facts, you have not even tried to back up your statements. You even contradict yourself, at one point. Why do you think we were attacked on 9/11? It did not have anything to do with Saddam, yet there we are. We were attacked because we take to much for granted. We like to think we live in this safe little world called the U.S.A. yet we are as much at risk as anyone. Yet reports were pushed a side and ignored that suggested that maybe something was going to happen, and it did.
ReplyDeleteUntil have something to back up your ramblings, don't waste your time posting. Your just repeating yourself and not backing anything up. A opinion is fine, but like I said you are just repeating what you already said. I am getting bored. Show me some facts.
For more information on whom the F.B.I. has arrested in the U.S.A.
ReplyDeletesince 9/11 go to their site or to cnn's. Plenty of facts. Thats why we have not been attacked since 9/11. They are paying attention to the reports and tips they have gotten since 9/11. I do think they had enough information before 9/11 they just failed to act. It's sad that it took a tragedy to get them to take a more pro-active approach.
If we were ' safe' all the measures that have been put in place since 9/11, we would not need them would we? We can never again let our selves think we are safe.
Obviously we view tax dollars differently. The way I look at is is if I have a employee who is salaried and has nothing to do I do not want him sitting around playing solitare. You have said Bush wastes all this money on the war, he has that right legally to spend the money as it was approved by congress, you do not like it but again it is legal. Legally you and the council have the right to vote on this resolution, I do not like it but again it is legal. What we have learned with you is as soon as anyone thinks that this idea is wasteful or silly your response is I legally can do this, yes you can. It does not mean we have to approve.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need to. It is the same thing. Either it will show the maority of voters support bringing the troops home or it will show that the majority of voters support the status quo. Whatever your opinion is voice it. Get out and vote!
ReplyDelete