At the recent meeting of East Main residents, the Under the Oak Tree Group, The Observer suggested that one of the consequences of focusing on the "vision" of how East Main should look, is being open to change--positive change. And hence, if the opportunity arose for a developer to purchase the blue restaurant and raze it and make a duplex or four plex that would have a "look" similar to the Mill Creek Apartments with brick front facing, this would be more consistent with the "vision" than trying to endlessly try to make a successful restaurant at the old location.
At this point, Mr. Conners mentioned that there had been some interest in converting the lower portion of the restaurant to a bar. The Observer felt that this was exactly the wrong direction for the location. It was proposed that this issue be put to a public watercooler. So, what do you think, Pub or Apartment? or what? It's your call.
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Only allow a pub if you include a drive through window too...
ReplyDeleteSeriously though... A pub, a bar... probably not in the best interest of the neighborhood. Residential seems to be the thing there that would be a better fit. Perhaps some other type of commercial interest other than a restaurant would work as well and coul dbe made to look nice... why not commercial on the ground floor with residential on top? This was kind of the idea that was envisioned for East Main before the 15th... now that the area is dedicated to more of a residential theme... what other options are there? Perhaps a 4-plex would work.
I also think that the city probably did not actually express interest in a "pub"... but was interested in the opportunity to loose an eyesore. Kind of like the way that party port place got fixed up... looks pretty good now.
A neighborhood pub could be a good use for it. The area is mixed use and the eatery that was there before did sell alchohol.
ReplyDeleteDuring the smart growth meeting it was dedided to keep the area east of the old blue restuarant as mixed use.
As long as it is empty it is not producing revenue for the area. It is not producing jobs or or busines tax.
With the community input it has potential to be a very nice place whether it is a pub, or four plex.
To have it sit empty has a negative impact on the area because it is an eyesore.
It is for rent and the rent is very high for this area which would exclude the low density type of business that anon sugeested.
Have you ever been out of Evansville? Go to Delevan, Watertown, these areas have some very nice pub type places in the mixed use areas.
How many "pub type" place and ways to purchase alcohol and or promote drinking and driving do we need? I'm sure if a pub goes in there, someone certainly will go there and perhaps it will do well and perhaps that will generate a job or two... but geez - can't we consider anything else?
ReplyDeleteWith the community input it has potential to be a very nice place whether it is a pub, or four plex.
ReplyDeleteAre there any other offers on the table? If there are then they should certainly be given equal consideration.
If not should the city say no just because it may not be the silver bullet?
Lets do the math...
ReplyDelete2 - 3 bardenters = approx 40K annually in salary.
that amounts to 80K
The business tax to the city would be roughly 100K or more annually.
that is just short of 200K annually being pumped into the economy. Over the course of five years it comes out to a cool million.
What could we do with the revenue?
This place has tried to be a restaurant with different owners. Problem is - it must be a bad spot for a restaurant. There is an apartment complex across the street, a Dr. Office down the street, and i like the idea of having an attractive apartment building there. The Mill Street Apartments are very attractive, and the laundromat on the ground floor is very nice. Maybe the residents in the area around this building would use a laundromat too. As far as landscaping and upkeep - I think the owner of the building usually is responsible for maintenance. The owner of this building must live out of town or something.!!
ReplyDeleteFunny... maybe you should show your work when you do math problems.
ReplyDeleteAlso funny... what really is your position with the neigborhood and the city? Seems like you wanted a whole bunch of change... got a bone thrown to you... eased up a bit... and now a darn bar is the answer? Got enough of those thanks. My kids live there too. I want them to be safe. I could care less about how many "K" you think a bar will generate.
Make no mistake about it, no one has thrown anything my way.
ReplyDeleteIF you would notice there are no other options on the table. The sign in the window reads "FOR RENT"
It isn't for sale. It is for rent, very high rent for this area.
Anon obviously did not read my post stating that with input from the community it could be a nice place whether it be a pub or duplex.
As far as bones go, I am voluntering a whole lot of time, money, and work to improve the East Main neighborhood.
What are you doing?
Who knows maybe Kwiktrip will open, Oh wait they sell beer and wine we can't have that now can we.
ReplyDeleteOh now we are really getting amusing... now anyone with a concern is part of the problem?
ReplyDeletePosts over the last several weeks contain everything from "she is the worst mayor ever" and "the city does what it wants before anyone has a say" to "We're working with the city in a positve manner"... this after years of this stuff?
Sounds to me as if YOU have already decided what is a good fit there and have done a market study to find our what the benefit to the city will be with all that money.
There are NOT any options at the moment (unless you consider that the Supreme Court now says the city can just go ahead and take it for just compensation)the place is for rent and evidently not for sale. So... you hope that things will eventually change. They will change one day and we SHOULD think about what is a good fit there that benefits the city as a whole and the immediate neighbors as well. Why not come up with a plan better than a bar?
You people live here and were complaining so much before... and about commercial stuff in that area... now you are planning a BAR? What is wrong with you?
And what am I doing? I'm trying to figure out why you flip and flop all over on E. Main issues. That could take a long time.
As long as your quoting then how about this:
ReplyDeleteDuring the smart growth meeting it was dedided to keep the area east of the old blue restuarant as mixed use.
As long as it is empty it is not producing revenue for the area. It is not producing jobs or or busines tax.
With the community input it has potential to be a very nice place whether it is a pub, or four plex.
To have it sit empty has a negative impact on the area because it is an eyesore.
There is rental property in that same area that is clear that the people renting there don't care what it looks like
I fail to see how this is flip flopping.
Anon can not have open discussion unless anon wins?
Just for the record, my evaluation of the Mayor is recorded each time I VOTE.
ReplyDeleteI have been watching the E. main St. issues in the paper but haven't kept totally up to speed with this issue on the Evansville Observer blog. I wasn't aware of this site previous to last weeks article in the Gazette. What does the mixed use zoning permit? Is a bar perimissable? Or restaurant with a liquor license? I agree a bar is not conducive to a a residential area. I used to live on Maple St. and would often get beer bottles in my yard on Saturday and Sunday mornings, vomit on the sidewalks on occasion, etc. I bought a house by the downtown area and paid accordingly, so I have no complaint, I chose my resident in a business area. But I don't think you want a bar moving into a primarily residential area. If a restaurant had the class of license that required primarily food sales, maybe that would fit this area. I think it would take a different kind of restaurant to make it work. In the past it was a "family restaurant" type menu that was similiar to the other two "family restaurants" in town (both times that there was a restaurant there in the past 7 years). Maybe an Irish pub would work if it had restaurant seating only and drinking was not the main focus. I throw that out there because the Irish pub concept seems to be popular in Madison, but I don't know what the right idea would be for a restaurant that could succeed. It would be risky to open a restaurant similiar to the ones that have failed in the past. Isn't it really up to an entrepreneur to come up with an idea that fits the zoning and if it does meet the zoning requirements a business could be opened? If it fit the zoning can the city deny an operating license because they don't like the idea? Once again, I am not sure what is allowed in the "mixed" area.
ReplyDeleteSchnepper for mayor.
ReplyDeleteI think that the people here are right in saying that a pub or a class of restaurant that might also serve alcohol might work there. Since we are planning for a better gateway into town, why not explore other areas as well?
Any business in there will cause some things to happen like noise, congestion, smell... we know what a restaurant/bar will cause in these areas. I think we should be more open minded and think about things that will work or be a productive addition to the community. What other kinds of businesses could work there? Does anyone have a thought about that?
Mark Schnepper asked if the mixed use zoning would permit a bar. Right now, the "mixed use" concept exists only in the new Smart Growth Comprehensive Plan. We might need to create a zoning ordinance to implement that concept, or maybe we could amend the regulations for the B-1 zoning district. The property being discussed is currently zoned B-1 and will remain zoned B-1 until the owner of the property requests rezoning, and then the request for rezoning must comply with the Smart Growth Comprehensive Plan. A bar or tavern is classified as "indoor commercial entertainment," which is a conditional use in the B-1 district. So if the folks who have been talking to the city about getting a license to serve liquor and beer in the property want to go forward with their plans, they need to obtain a conditional use permit from the Plan Commission, after notice and a public hearing.
ReplyDeleteBill Connors
Evansville City Administrator
Bill,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification. Does the city have the right to determine a "mix" of appropriate food vs. alcohol sales? I recall a Madison bar losing their license due to this classification. As far as state licensing I see there are just 3 classes and there isn't any food requirement attached to them. Does the city now or could they in the future make this kind of stipulation for a business that would be located in a primarily residential area?
Mark
The city specified a mix of food and alcohol sales for the class "B" beer license for the mexican restaurant at the corner of Main St. and Madison St., but that was because the restaurant is near a church. I do not think our ordinances on liquor/beer licenses give the city that power otherwise. But that could be a condition under the conditional use permit they need to obtain.
ReplyDeleteBill Connors
Evansville City Administrator
Mark I think it sounds like you have alot of good ideas. I really do hope that you give more consideration into running for a city of office of some kind. If you don't feel this is a option maybe you know of someone who would also be a strong candidate for a alderperson postion or mayor. I wish you would give it some more thought though.
ReplyDeleteWe certainly do not need a another bar in Evansville. However, a pub might be appealing. Other communities have pubs successfully located in residential areas.
ReplyDeleteRomanos has a nice new addition, where a drink or glass of wine can be enjoyed in comfort (unless the music is turned on full blast!). An Irish pub might be attractive, although existing parking could be a problem.
On other thought: be nice to have a restaurant serving different fare here, perhaps something more European than American (nice wine selection, nice menu, a chef directing the meals, etc.). However, I am not convinced that we give enough business to our existing enterprises, and another restaurant would probably only mean more competition for the few who eat here now.
If I thought that a new eatery or pub or whatever would keep people from going to Janesville or Madison to spend their dining $$$, I would be more supportive of having the blue restaurant reopened.