Bill Connors has left a new comment on your post ""Grumps" Speaks: V-Notch Failure----Engineering ...":
There seems to be a lack of consistency between the text of the post and the Observer's headline. We do not know if the engineering failed, in this sense: We do not know if the the overall design of the system failed. The execution of one mechanical component within the system failed, and that might have caused the entire system to fail. Fix that one mechanical component so it functions realibly as it was designed to function, and the whole system might work. Let's not jump to conclusions not supported by the facts available to us.
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Bill----
ReplyDeleteYes. And an INDEPENDENT ENGINEERING REVIEW is the only way of determining that. Engineers are not prone to admit design or component error. They are more likely to get religion suddenly and blame it on an "Act of God." Alleluia.
The Observer
Maybe it would be prudent and more fair to let Foth & Van Dyke (the independent engineering firm hired by the city) investigate the work done by the developers' contractor and see what Foth & Van Dyke concludes is the problem. Maybe they won't say it was an Act of God.
ReplyDeleteBill Connors
Dave Sauer and Foth and Van Dyke has failed the city and particularly the westside enough already. Why should anyone value his/their opinion.
ReplyDeleteBlame has been pointed on Abey Koth and their developers by Sauer and the developers in Westfield. Either way (if Abey Koth was poorly designed or Westfield is causing Abey's pain), didn't he sign off on all of it as the City Engineer? If not directly, he did by voting for both projects as a member of the planning commission (he was only recently lost his voting rights).
Isn't engineering about getting it right the first time? I'm pretty sick and tired of being their guinnea pig. This morning was the third time getting flooded at this year. The timing in regard to grading Westfield seems pretty suspicious sitting where I am.
I am not familiar with the series of failures by Foth & Van Dyke to which Mark refers.
ReplyDeleteI am almost 100% sure that Foth & Van Dyke was not the city's engineering firm at the time the city approved the plat for the Abey Koth subdivision. The Abey Koth subdivision plat contained no storm water detention pond--none, zero. The city has been forced to cobble together the management of stormwater for the Abey Koth subdivision after the fact.
If you get a chance sometime, ask David Wartenweiler to take you around the city and show you all the things that were screwed up by the firm that was the city's engineering firm befor Foth & Van Dyke.
The flood situation on the west side several years ago occurred because water from the farm fields north of Porter Road sheeted across the road (because the ditch along the north side of Porter road and the drainange way running south from the road had not been adequately maintained by the farmland owners, township, or county) and inundated the city's detention pond (part of the cobbling) for Abey Koth subdivision. I hardly think it is fair to blame Foth & Van Dyke for not anticipating that event.
If there has been a failure by Foth & Van Dyke regarding storm water on the west side, and I stress IF, the problem with the construction of the V opening in the new storm water pond north of Porter Road is the first one.
Bill Connors
Bill and Mark:
ReplyDeleteI call for an INDEPENDENT ENGINEERING REVIEW----that is NOT termination or treating people arbitrarily. It is full due process and it is done in professional circles every day--pre surgery, post mortem, etc etc. It is not just folks reviewing their past deeds---that is examination of conscience and is in the realm of religion. It is also NOT fellow employee review---which is what was done in the Pat Tillman case---the guy who shot him made up the story. NO.
INDEPENDENT REVIEW recognizes that after a crisis event, such as a bridge collapse, or engineering failure, there was something that was not seen---and fresh eyes help.
INDEPENDENT REVIEW allows dignity and due process to the contractor and ensures results to the community.
Without it---nothing will be resolved.
That is as I see it.
The Observer
I can't confirm who approved the Abey Koth subdivision (or at least the addition of 6th St. to it), because the online minutes only go back to 8/2004.
ReplyDeleteHowever, last night I did state(perhaps mistakenly) that both Westfield and Abey have the common denominator of being approved by Foth & Van Dyke/Sauer and he didn't correct me. If Bill is correct, you would think Dave would have corrected me. It was the second time I spoke and actually after public comments were closed and Mr. Sauer had already spoken, I can't remember if he addressed the crowd again after my comments (although I am shocked that if I am wrong in my assertion that he didn't take the time to correct me).
Mark