Doug Zweizig, member of the Union Smart Growth Committee, spoke at the Evansville Smart Growth meeting on June 15, 2005, and his comments may form the cornerstone of the dialogue about the planning process between Union and Evansville as the two communities proceed.
After congratulating Evansville on completing their plan, he then quietly went over a little of the History of the World of Planning, Part 1, kind of like Mel Brooks did in History of the World, part 1. In part 1, planners compile vast amounts of data and then after reflection, cities do what developers propose. In fact, in his recollection and after review of Union or Evansville, it was hard to find a case where this was not the model. Developers propose and communities do.
To quote Doug, "A way of doing business that seems natural and inevitable, was neither, and has not had good consequences for the area. People in Evansville and Union could choose to do businesss differently. "
In the future, the communities could clearly develop the vision and then have developers execute the plan. Not the reverse.
Just when residents were about to uncork the champaigne and celebrate, these sobering words dampened the party, so to speak.
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I am sure there is some resentment from both Magnolia and Union. They are supposed to be our partners in smart growth. Last year Kendall Schneider asked us to wait 1 year for the completion of smart growth rather than proceeding with annexing Lee Ringhands property. Under mayor Ringhands leadership, the planning commission chose to ignore the general objections of everyone that spoke at these meetings and annex Lee Ringhands property into Evanville. People that spoke against the project included Evansville, Magnolia and Union citizens. The only people that I recall speaking favorably of the annexation were involved with the project in some manner. I suspect that there are some unresolved issues with Union and Magnolia due to the way things were handled.
ReplyDeleteMark Schnepper
I think the time has come for change. (past due actually) It would seem as though since our city officials don't think they have to listen its time we vote their butts out of their. That means talking to everyone you can think of, give a speech in church, in needed ( yeah I know, I don't think thats what our minister would have in mind when he asks for worrys or concerns) but you get the point. Talk to people not only in your district but others. Let them know how about the things that have been going on, believe it or not alot of people don't know whats been going on in their city. Elections are next spring, may seem like a ways off but its never to early to get busy talking to people. There are several people on city council that need to be voted out of their, the one lady does not even watch out for her own district anymore, she votes how the city wants, its more of a social status for her than a responsibility to her community, there is a older man on the city council who is a contractor who is pretty full of bs., and always votes with the city, because there is a possibility it would line his pockets eventually, or he wants to see his fellow contractor get some bucks. Time for change, time to take back our city. Starts at the top and we need to work our way down. Put actual citizens only in their, not contractors, or cousins of contractors, not city employee's and for gosh sakes don't allow someone who does not even live in this town to vote, they can walk away at anytime and don't have to be held responsible for the mess they have made. CHECK OUT THE EVANSVILLE REVIEW THIS WEEK, there is suppose to be a interesting article from someone who spoke at the Smart Growth meeting Wedenesday night, this guy was so right on, and went to show we are not the only unhappy people in this community. So lets start making some changes, if you have the time and willingness to run for city council or mayor or no some one who does, start planning now. I also plan on having someone from the state come down and monitor the voting process on election day just so everything is equal and fair. I have already spoken with some one at the state level about this and they agreed that it would be no problem to do this. So lets get going and make some changes, it will be worth it,
ReplyDeleteso if you can't run, lets find some people who would make good strong candidates, and then get out and VOTE
P.S. Can't complain about a situation if you are willing to try to make the changes.
ReplyDeleteNot all, but some of what has recently come into the city WAS proposed many years ago in the older versions of the Evansville Master Plan. These were areas that were slated as "future residential".
ReplyDeleteIf nothing else, the "Smart Growth" plan is a good place to start planning in a manner not taken seriously in years past. It does seem as if the developers come to the city with their ideas and the city reacts to their plan. I do not think this is entirely wrong.
The city could come up with a better way or ways to plan for growth on their own, but there would be those who would not like the city making all of the plans, just as there are those that do not like the developers making all of the plans.
The key here is working together. The city must not only follow the guide outlined on the Smart Growth plan, but begin to become proactive in the planning... set some guidelines for future growth and how this growth will be achieved.
One example: economic development. We need businesses and industry in the city. Not only will they provide better tax dollars than low to mid value affordable housing, but they may also provide jobs for people in this area. The city has never established a method for searching for and retaining these types of additions to our community.
The city does need affordable housing, just as it also needs high end homes to provide better tax dollars back to the city.
All of these ideas have to work in harmony with what already exists in the city... the school, the roads here and there... all of this must somehow work.
The Smart Growth plan is a tool that we can begin with, but actually implementing the plan will be interesting. As far as I can see, the city will not spend tax dollars on things like market studies to figure out what is best and where it should go. The developers DO spend a LOT of money to figure these things out. They in turn bring those ideas to the city, and then the city figures out how the plan will work with the city. Not every plan works. Some go away. Some are turned down. Some are modified over and over again with city staff until it becomes something that is in the city's better, if not best, interest. Until the city has the revenue to do it all, they will have to rely on and work with the developers just as the developers will have to continue to work with the city.
This has been the case with the Township as well. Now that they are taking a harder look at their own planning and development through Smart Growth, they may come up with some very good guidelines to follow. They also run into the same problems with costs and who will spend the money.
There is a little more involved than simply "Developers propose, Cities do" as was stated in the original post here.
As this area continues to grow we will all have to take a look at the bigger picture and figure out who we are, why we are here, what is our goal and how we can work with the township, the neighboring communities, the county and on and on. Growth will continue. The Smart Growth plan was a way for us to have a say in future land development. If the city does not have a plan, or plan better... the township will certainly continue to grow around the city. Bringing those tax dollars into the city of Evansville will aid in keeping Evansville a thriving community.
I agree somewhat with the other 'anonymous'. This city does need growth, but controlled growth, the right kind of growth. I strongly suspect that anonymous was at the smart growth meeting Wed. night and heard the same thing I did from the one resident,
ReplyDelete' Evansville' has never seen a project it did not like. This town needs more good paying jobs. I am sorry I do not consider the Piggly Wiggly a good paying job and there is about as much crap that goes on out there as at city hall. We read Mr.Connors preaching everyweek about shop in town. Well I work in madison, I shop in madison because I pay 50-75.00 more a week when I did shop at the Piggly Wiggly than when I shop at Woodman's. Not worth shopping at the pig. If Evansville could provide good paying jobs, one in my field I would be more than likely to shop in town. Because I would already be in town, and it would mean a extra trip to madison or janesville to get grocery's. But Evansville has only managed to build houses in the last few years and really bring any industrial or big commercial growth to town. Losing blue cross was huge,and they have not recovered from that yet. This town needs new direction with new people from the top down.
I agree somewhat with the previous anon post as well. I think one thing wrong with past model is not necessarily who pays for a study, but what the purpose of the study is. I do not doubt that the developers spend a lot of money on market studies. But what is the focus of their study? I think it is how can we make this work to our advantage (the developers). The city should be involved with the study and the question should be how can we make this project successful for the city? I have no problem with the developers having to pay for this or subsidizing the cost, but they shouldn't be selecting the firm to do the market analysis. The city should control the study so it doesn't turn into a profit study for the developer's interest, ignoring the questions that are important to the whole commmunity. How will this affect our schools. How will this affect our infrastructure. What kind of homes need to be built to at the very minimum have a break even effect on our tax base if they do not add to it? When a developer is looking at a business opportunity, the questions that are important to them are not the same questions that are important to the city as a whole. Obviously the developers need to make a profit, but if they do it to the detriment of the overall good, why should they be given the opportunity. They need to demonstrate that they can benefit the community while achieving their goal of making a profit. It needs to be an unbiased study looking at community goals not just the goals of a small segment of the population.
ReplyDeleteMark Schnepper
I agree with much of what you said. "I have no problem with the developers having to pay for this or subsidizing the cost, but they shouldn't be selecting the firm to do the market analysis."
ReplyDeleteThe city does not, at this time anyway, determine which contractors are used by the developers... why should they determine the firm that would prepare such a study? The city always has the power to say "no" or modify the plan submitted. This has been the case with recent additions.
"The city should control the study so it doesn't turn into a profit study for the developer's interest"... how should they do that? Aren't they doing that now? If not, they should be.
Once again... working together will be the key. There will always be those who will disagree with ANY plan for ANY growth or development. That's just the way it is. I would not entirely discredit the city's methods. I would agree that there are probably a few things that might not have been thought out or planned as well as possible... but a little of that might be the fault not of the city but of the developers, contractors, builders and so on that have after the fact built something in a manner not in keeping with the original plan. I guess the responsibility for checking this should go back to the city... and it should be done. Wrongs should be righted.
I guess my issue is the idea that I seem to gather from this blog is that many people seem to think that these are willful actions by the city. I don't think that they always are.
One of the anonymous voices and Mark Schnepper each made some great points.
ReplyDeleteMore people would shop in Evansville if more people worked in Evansville. If anyone has a friend or relative in a business that is considering expansion or relocation, I would be thrilled to meet that person and talk about what Evansville has to offer. But right now, we don't have enough staff to do much prospecting for new employers. Yours truly is the only one in city government who has that assignment, and I have a lot of other assignments (lately I have been a jack of all trades and a master of none).
I agree with Mark that a study, paid for by the developer but done by a consultant picked by the city or agreed upon by the city and developer, of the fiscal impact of big new development projects would be extremely useful. But I don't have the authority to make these kinds of decisions. If you think this is important, you might want to speak with your alderpersons about it.
Bill Connors
Evansville City Administrator
I don't know Mark Schnepper personally but I think he sounds like a great candidate for alderperson. Think seriously Mark about this, it is one of the first step in seeing some changes.
ReplyDeleteBe the change you want to see!
ReplyDeleteIt only means lead by setting the example.
ReplyDeleteWe need change in the city.
Step up, vote, run for office, be creative and proactive.
Be the change, whether it is attitude, or behavior or politics.
The people who run for office again and again do it because they think no one will run against them. Guess what they are pretty much right.
Well I hope they are not to 'comfortable' they may be in for a surprise this next spring.
ReplyDelete